Questions & Answers About Cermark Products Usage
Q-Trying to mark some 1/8" thick bronze. Test grid shows 3 IPS and 95% power on 90 watt CO2 laser. When doing actual plaque, very little marking, with about 70% of it washing off. Any help appreciated.
A-Many time the bronze has a clearcoat on the bronze, if this is the case the clearcoat must be removed in the area where they want to laser mark.
Work with a 1064nm inferred fiber pulse laser
Q-Will any of your products work with a 1064nm inferred fiber pulse laser?
A-Yes, if the laser is used in the continuous wave mode (CW) or that the laser can adjust the megahertz (MHz) to 160 or higher.
Degradation from exposure to light
Q-I would love to know if your company has any data on sun-fading or degradation from exposure to light over time.
A-Unfortunately, we do not have any official data on test performed on the LMC-6044P or ULTRA on glass or ceramic when exposed to UV light.
Q-Secondly, I wanted to know what the opacity of these substrates on glass is. That is to say, what percentage of the incoming light does it absorb?
We are not aware of, nor have we encountered an application where light transmission was a factor, so for this reason test were not performed.
Cermark Ultra in Anodized Aluminum
"I have been using the Cermark Ultra Spray on Anodized Aluminum and it seems to hold up well, but I noticed the only product you recommend for anodized Aluminum is the LMM6018 tape. I would prefer not to use the tape unless it's necessary. The spray is easier to work with" ....Timaymcnamara@gmail.com
Q-Does the Ultra spray work with a diode laser (455nm)?
A-No It does Not
Can Cermark be used to mark Cerakoted Parts?
Q - Can CerMark mark onto a Cerakote C series coating?
A-My understanding on Cerakote is that it is a paint like coating, and I would not recommend using the CerMark on this type of application.
Q-Does Cermark work with a UV laser?
A-Cermark Does not work with any UV laser
Cermark on Granulated stainless steel
Q-What product do you suggest for marking granulated stainless steel?
A-You should be able to use any of the CerMark metal products, LMM-6000, LMM-14, or ULTRA on Granulated stainless steel. Like always you should test first.
Cermark On Tungsten ( Wolfram)
Q-Does cermark can mark on tungsten ( Wolfram) ? Which of the products can be used for this material?
A Yes, it did in some tungsten, but you have to do a test to check it out. You can test with ULTRA, 2 oz spray can. Wolfram is very dense like gold and extremely hard, almost like diamond, so it can be tested with the LMM6000 Too.
Cermark on Nikel
Q- What product would be the best to laser engrave detail on an electroless nickel coated steel part without burning into the nickel coating?
A-We don’t have information concerning if our products would penetrate the nickel coating, but I do know that customers use our LMM-6000 and LMM-14 to mark on nickel.
Q- I would like to know whether you have Thermark LMC12 available for marking on polycarbonate?
A-LMC12 is no longer produced and some customers have had some success engraving plastics with the LMC6044, but it is NOT what I can recommend, it is just an idea. If you have the product on hand you can do some tests. If you do and it works I would appreciate if you let me know how it went to confirm that it has worked.
Q-What safety equipment do you recommend when using ultra aerosol black laser marking spray and black laser marking paste?
We cannot comment on PPE requirements other than what is listed on the ULTRA SDS in Section 2 P271. Specific PPE will vary depending on your processes and procedures. Our downstream users must make this decision.
Black on polish metal with Ultra
Q-I acquired Cermark Ultra spray black. I am applying it to a small metal (polished steel) disc, and engraving with a 60w C02 laser. but the engraving, is grey and not black..
A-You need to laser the test grid, sometimes when to much power is used the laser mark can appear grey.
Q: Is CerMark laser marking material FDA approved, Is it secure for food applications ?
A: CerMark materials are not approved in themselves by the FDA as the FDA’s role is to approve final products rather than component materials. The FDA has, however, approved many of our customer’s finished products such as surgical tools and implants which have been marked using CerMark materials. For more information ( click here)
Marking on Black Oxide
Q-We currently has a steel pip that we sound out for black oxide coating and when it returns, we would like to engrave it. I would need some kind of coating that is not black so it would show. Do you offer anything like this?
A- We have seen success marking on Black Oxide using the LMM-6150 Pearl. I’ve attached a couple of pictures showing the LMM-6150 on Black Oxide (DSC07097) and one other black enamel
Q- I have used your product LMM6000 on steel plate laser marking. Can I use it on 0.75 mm (33 thou) thick anodized aluminum surface for laser marking in black?
A- We recommend you the LMM6018 for Anodized Aluminum
5 w Laser/ mark on Anodized Aluminum
Q-Will a 5w laser be able to mark black letters on gold anodized aluminum?
No, aluminum is one of the more difficult metals to mark and needs much more power. With Co2 at least 30W
Q-Does the product mark on glass with a blue light laser such as XTool D1?
We have no experience with Blue laser systems and for this reason I can not say one way or another if it will work. You can always try the ULTRA ( 2oz. Ultra can)
Anyway to mark on Powder coat ?
Looking for something that can will leave black marking on powder coated aluminum parts. Using a Fiber laser
We do not have any products for powder coated metals.
How to wipe extra Ultra Spray on Cooper
Feed back on Removal of Cermark Ultra on copper mug over heated engraving caused extra spray to adhere to copper. This did not allow water rinse or wipe off extra spray. I found that using HARD toothbrush with Crest GuM Detoxify Deep Clean toothpaste and water with some scrubbing removes all cooked on extra coating.
Q-What would be the best to mark carbon fiber pool cue shafts?
A-To the best of my knowledge none of the CerMark products will mark carbon fiber.
Q-Is the cermark affected in any way in corrosive environments? Is there one product that works better this type of environment?
If the Laser operator uses the correct setting the mark will withstand this environment. Use Cermark Lmm6000
Marking on Glass
Q-We are considering to use "CerMark LMC-6044P Aerosol Can" in our production, but in order to do a sufficient qualification we have some questions concerning the product .
I would recommend the CerMark ULTRA for laser marking on Glass. The ULTRA well produce good marks ad is easier to use. The LMC-6044P is exclusive for ceramic and glass. LMM6044 & ULTRA is available in both an aerosol can and paste which is a concentrate, the paste allows you the ability to use your own spray devises such as a HVPL spray gun.
How does the paint bond to the glass when lasered? Does it bin in some way?
Both the LMC-6044P and ULTRA fuses by thermic fusion to the glass surface.
- would you please send me a safety data sheet or give me some information about the chemical composition?
See attached the attached SDS for both the LMC-6044P and ULTRA.
- can the lasered paint be removed by any solvent as acetone or ultra-sonic cleaning?
If the correct laser settings were used solvent, acetone or ultra-sonic cleaning will not hard the laser marks.
Q-Can Cermark be used on Copper Sheets? Any special settings for a Epilogue Mini 45 watt laser system?
A-Yes, Cermark Ultra can be used on copper, but as to the power settings you will need to do a test grid or contact your machine distributor manufacturer as they should know the best settings for your machine model, power and age.
Q-My understanding with co2 lasers is that damage can be done by the beam reflecting back into the laser thus damaging the laser. How does Cermark get-around damaging the laser?
A- If a Co2 laser is used directly on shiny metals such as stainless and chrome it will reflect like a light in a mirror. If you want to laser mark on these metals, you must use the CerMark metal marking products. When the CerMark is sprayed onto these metals the coating absorbs the beam energy and will not reflect.
On brass plate
Q-Wanting to mark an 1/8” brass plate for an outdoor memorial. Will the CerMark Ultra withstand the elements? Thank you.
Our Cermark Ultra material will be the best for marking on brass plate; we recommend a metal tube co2 laser of 25-30+ watts to run the job, water chilled laser tubes will have a more difficult time getting proper settings but with some testing clients have been able to use our materials.
As to the elements, many of our clients have used them for outdoors but we are NOT able to test every temperature or settings, this will be up to the end-user to run a test of their material in their environment. With that said, our materials has gone to outer space, in the oceans and it can hold to many extreme weather patterns as per our clients feedback.
Q-Do you think the LMC6044 can work on a UHMW material using a 32 w RMI fiber laser? can it be paste or spray?
A-The UHMW material is a plastic, the LMC-6044P nor will any of the CerMark products mark any plastics.
Q-Do you have a product, or have you ever tried using the marking tape on powder coat?
A- I don’t believe the Tape would work on a powder coat
Ultra Vs 6044
Q- Attached is a photo of Ultra (left) and 6044 (right) on porcelain tile. They were both run and the same speed (325 mms) and power (25%) on a 60-watt CO2 laser. The Ultra is coming out gray. Do you know why this is? It seems like 6044 takes less power to produce the same results.
It seems you used to little of the ULTRA to coat the porcelain and did not coat enough with the LMC-6044P as well. The image laser marked should all be black. The ULTRA spray comes out of the can slower which delivers less product onto the porcelain, the LMC-6044P will spray much heavier. You have evenly coat the part with 2 or even 3 coats of the ULTRA before laser marking, wait at least 30 seconds between each coat before applying the next.
Q-what is the heat rating for cermark, a customer wants me to laser the top of a stainless steel BBQ which will get hot, will cermark hold?
A-If you use the correct laser setting heat will not remove the marks, we have tested the CerMark withstand high temperatures, see clip below.
Q-Can any of your products be used on metal as a resist for acid etching / Ferric Chloride to etch brass, copper and nickel?
A-No, they can not
Cut through marked areas
Q- Is it possible to apply the material LMM14 on some copper plates of 5mm thickness, mark like 900 numbers and then these plates must be cut in smaller pieces. what happens when you cut through areas that have the product applied? Does it leave a cured area at the edge of the cute or not?
If you cut the copper with the Cermark on it yest it is possible that some of the LMM-14 will bond on the edges.
Q-Can CerMark be used to Laser Etch zinc Alloy/Nickel material?
I do not recommend laser marking Zinc, dangerous gas can be released when marking zinc. The ULTRA should be able to mark on nickel, but the LMM-14 may be better.
Thicker lines no stick
Q-I have been having a problem the recently with thicker lines not sticking to the stainless. I have been doing this for 5 years with no trouble
The last few times I have it has been wiping off. The letters are fine.
A-It looks like a good part of it worked but not the rest. This normally occurs when the heat of the tube changes. Since I don’t have any information on your machine, power settings or product you are using its very difficult for us to pinpoint the issue. You may want to check your table level and make sure you have a bit more power in case its changing throughout the job. This is about all I can suggest without knowing more.
Frecuency /Fiber Laser
Q-Hi I'm looking to confirm if the LMM14 Spray and a 10W laser like the xTool D1 would be able to mark on electroless nickel plated aluminum. Thank you!
A-I would assume this laser would work, but I’m not familiar this system, as always the Fiber laser must be CW or adjust the frequency to above 150,000. I recommend running the test grid also.
Q-I have seen bricks with what look like Cermark markings. The markings are black and have a glossy or shiny appearance. I have tried using Cermark Ultra to get similar results, but have failed. Is there a better product or specific method to use on brick? I use a 70watt CO2 laser.
A-The marks made using the CerMark ULTRA or LMC-6044P do not have a shiny look, our marks would have a matt look to them. The shiny marks are made using high wattage high power lasers which mark to brick and some may be special bricks for this process.
Q-We have a 30w MOPA Fiber Laser, which product for aluminum would you recommend?
A-I would recommend the LMM-14 but make sure to adjust the frequency to 200KHZ or higher. You can test the 2 Oz can of ultra and compare it with the LMM14 to see the results.
Remove Cermark mark
A-How do I remove Cermark Spray for a messed-up metal item that has been engraved already? The name was misspelled.
Substrate SS, Product ULTRA spray
A-If the customer used the correct settings, then the mark is permanent and can not be removed easily. The only way to remove the mark is to grind the metal until the mark is gone.
Q-Does the CerMark Ultra work on natural granite?
No, CerMark will not work on granite.
Has Cermark Uranium in it?
Q- I'm researching a thermal bonding agent to use. Can you tell me if Thermark LMM14 has any Uranium in it?
A- It does not have Uranium in it
Q- Does Cermark Ultra work with the Diode Laser?
A- Ultra should work if the laser is (CW) continuous-wave laser system, pulse systems will not.
Anodized Aluminum with a fiber laser
Q-I would like to know what product I can use to mark anodized aluminum with a fiber laser, at 200Khz
A- I would recommend the LMM-6904 Paste, it’s ready to use straight from the container, but this depends on the fiber laser used.
You also could the LMM6018 Cermark Tape. You have to make tests. https://www.cermarkusa.com/#!/LMM6904
Lens in bad condition
Q-Hi, I'm using Cermark LMM-6000 to engrave aluminum using a PureLaser 150W laser cutter. I've attempted this at 100% power with varying speeds, from 100mm/s down to 25mm/s (and higher speed, lower power settings). With each of these, the engraving still rubs and washes off easily afterward. I'm adding a single layer coating before engraving and making sure it is dry before engraving. Is there something I'm missing? Many thanks.
A-Hard to believe a 150-watt laser at those low speeds can’t mark aluminum using LMM-6000. They should not have a problem getting a mark using a 150-watt laser, that, is if everything with the laser is working properly. What other work do you use this laser for? If you cut a lot of wood and plastics the lenses and mirrors could be in dab condition. Have you pulled the lens and mirrors to see if they are in good condition?
Is Chromium 6 present?
Q- I need to make some ID tags, and am wondering if this product when used on stainless steel is considered 'hot work', or if you have done any testing to see if chromium 6 becomes present in the use on stainless?
The CerMark products do not have any chromium 6 present, nor when using the CerMark will there be chromium produced.
Q- Does the stainless steel have any molecular changes, when this is used?
Or is this layer of polymers just being deposed onto the stainless surface, without affecting the underlying chromium/steel molecular structure?
A- Correct, an 80 watt CO2 laser system will not change the molecular structure of the stainless steel. The laser process using a co2 laser systems will only bond the CerMark to the stainless itself, when the correct laser settings are used to completed the bond the mark will become permanent.
Convertion of chromium
Q-Do you know if co2 lasers have an affect on chromium 3 to convert it to chromium 6? Or does this only occur on fiber laser systems?
A- Only when using a fiber.
Q- With Cermark, we are laser marking on thin lens glass. Part of the cleaning process is to swipe lens with Ethyl Alcohol. Do you know curing process for the Cermark in order to be resistant to the Ethyl Alcohol or if it this is even possible?
A- We would recommend cleaning the product with a lent free cloth and water, but if you must use alcohol, you can wait a minute or less after its marked. The mark is instantaneous and as long as sufficient heat is applied to the material to bind it, alcohol should not be able to remove it. Hope this suggestion helps, please keep me updated on your experience.
Tape and Laser fibers
Q- Does Cermak tape engraves well on surgical steel with a 20 W fiber laser?
No, it does not. Seems the LMM-6018 Tape doesn’t mark on fiber laser systems, I recommend find a sample of the tape and try it on your laser system.
To mark on Nickle Plated S.S.
Q- I need a small amount of something that will mark well on Nickle plated stainless steel with a Co2/ 40w Glowforge Plus?
The Cermark product can be used on a Nickle Coated SS. The laser Processing will be critical to getting a good mark with contrast and not dissolving or removing the Nickle Coating. The glass tube laser such as the Glowforce sometimes has trouble maintaining a steady output power for this process. The sealed metal laser tube with RF control has better control over the marking process with Cermark. You can try Ultra 2 Oz can. and make different tests This will allow you to analyze the situation and see it continues.
I would recommend the LMM-14, but the LMM-6000 should also work.
Date of Production
Q- How do I know the production date of the Cermark LMM6000 product I have purchased ? The label shows 91025 and I don't know how to interpret it.
A- A paste lot-91025 was produced on 07/05/2021, we list all CerMark products with a shelf life of 2 years from date of manufacturing. This shelf life was introduced so that customers can maintain documentations for auditing purposes, the LMM-6000 Paste will produce quality laser marks if the paste consistency is maintained well beyond the 2 years. In the spray cans you can see a number of 5 digits. (Example: 21317) This means: 21 is the year. 317 is the day of the year when them were produced. (Julian Date).
On Casted Aluminum
Q- Does Cermark products works with Casted Aluminum?
A- The LMM-14, LMM-6000 and ULTRA should mark cast aluminum, as always, the customer must run the test grid to determine the proper settings for their laser that mark the cast aluminum.
No recording images well
Q-My images are not recording well with cermark
A- If your original image was of sufficient quality (120 dpi or higher) then it would appear that the coating of Cermark you sprayed onto the surface was too thick and/or you used too much power. (Remember that power and speed are closely related - slower speed is basically the equivalent of more power because portions of the laser spot remain in the same position for a longer period of time, even though it's only milliseconds). Due to the smaller particle size, approximately one-thousandth of an inch (0.001") is about the optimum thickness, however, it's very difficult to spray the coting that thin - it takes practice! The thicker the coating - the more power (or slower speed) you will need to generate enough heat to make the chemical bonding occur causing the Cermark to adhere to the substrate surface; however, the thicker coating will also produce "fuzzier" edges because the heat generated by the laser spot (when absorbed by the coating) will radiate out into larger are of the coating and cause the lines of the image (laser dots - dpi plus laser pulses per second) which will then become larger than the original image intendeds interpreted by the laser software/firmware. So my recommendation is to use thinner coating and/or a faster speed to improve the quality of the finished laser making.
Q: I am looking for something in writing that would state that when paste is applied, and a laser is used that it does not penetrate the metals it is put on. Based on the information given to me you are using a Epilog laser (CO2) machine.
A: It is widely known in the industry that Co2 laser system are not capable of creating black images on metal surface or even subsurface marks. The CerMark LMM-6000 Paste was formulated to allow Co2 laser systems the ability to laser mark metals surfaces which typically cannot be laser marked directly (absent of the LMM-6000 paste) using Co2 laser systems.
Q-Is the LMC-6044P the best product for black marks on ceramic? Does cold temperature affect the output?
For laser marking on ceramics, I highly recommend the CerMark ULTRA.
What is causing the marks not to adhere Improper laser settings ?.
Customers need to do a series of power and speed setting to determine the best settings using their laser system. See attached bulletin for laser setting on ceramics and glass. (Click Here)
Does the dish need to be at a specific temp as the warehouse is at 30 degrees where we are making these items?.
30 degrees may be to cold causing the dish to crack during the laser process from the thermal shock when laser marking. For consistency I would recommend marking parts at room temperatures.
Q-Can you please advise if Cermark works for sterling silver. I want to engrave a locket with my CO2 50 watt laser. What should my settings be?
Sterling Silver will take more heat then if marking stainless. You have to run test marks shown in the (Optimizing Laser Settings) to verify the best laser settings, you should use a spare part to determine this information. If this part is a cheap sterling silver their may be a clear coat on the surface, if there is the CerMark will not work. The LMM-6000 should work but I would recommend the LMM-14 Aerosol for this metal.
Q- If I were to mark a part (Low Carbon Steel.) with the black coating then follow up with the white coating and mark over the black, will that work? I have some parts that the marking is incorrect and I was going to mark over the marking with a black box, but would like to remark the parts with a white marking. Will this work?
Yes, the LMM-6150 Pearl will mark over the LMM-6000 Black, Be sure the run test marks using the LMM-6150 over the LMM-6000 to determine the best power/speed settings for the look you’re are looking for.
Q- “I have read on a couple forums that CerMark / TherMark has been used on medical equipment installed inside the human body and folks have said that the bond between the ceramic formulation holds up well onto stainless steel (dishwashers and subsea applications). I wanted to reach out to inquire if those statements are true and what produce would be best suited for this application.”
As it refers to the question for use in body implants, this would fall under an FDA approval which is to be submitted for approval by the end users (customer laser marking the parts). This is not a document Ferro can provide.
As it refers to the question for use in dishwasher durability, we have not performed nor have documentation on testing. I have attached information on the durability testing performed.
As it refers to the question for use in subsea I’m assuming with is related to salt water exposures. We do not have saltwater exposure data to share.
With this said we have several customers who have and presently using the CerMark products for these types of applications. To use the CerMark products in these application testing must be done by the laser operator to verify the laser settings are adequate for these applications.
I am using LMM6000 but I am facing a problem, I tried it on aluminum and it seems fine until I expose to weather and then it turns light brown from the original black The aluminum is plain raw aluminum sheet
After it happened I tried again and this 2nd time I tried a layer of clear coat over it after I have marked using LM6000 Same problem happens
After that I tried a 3rd time, using a drum sander and brushed the entire aluminum surface and clean it with detergent and water.
After it dried I tried the LM6000 again, Same problem
Could you advise please on how to have the LM6000 work exposed to weather like it should for aluminum?
You may not be using the best aluminum for outdoor exposures, I recommend research the best grade of aluminum recommended for the conditions for which the aluminum will be exposed to. Also, be sure to run testing to determine the best laser settings on aluminum, Click here . Be sure to scrub the test marks with a green scrub pad to verify durability. For laser marking outdoor exposure aluminum I would recommend using the LMM-14, it marks aluminum better than LMM-6000.
what is the warranty and expiration date of cermark products (Lmm6000) ?
The Date Of Manufacturer Will Depend On The Container At Time Of Sale, Our Products Move Very Quickly And They Don’t Sit For More Than 2-Weeks Or Less. The Product Has Been Known To Last For Over Two (2) Years, But Its Guarantee By Manufacturer For Six (6) Months. I Trust These Answers Your Questions.
CerMark LMM6000, Black 50gram, Use: Stainless Steel & Pewter
Certificate Of Compliance: FERRO Inc. (‘Seller”) Warrants Cermark™ Branded Laser Marking Materials To Be Free From Defects In Materials And Workmanship Under Normal Use, And To Have An Effective Shelf-Life Under Normal Use, For A Period Of Six (6) Months From The Date Of Invoice. The Shelf-Life Will Be Longer As Long As The Product Is Kept Airtight And Liquefied.
Q- Will the Cermark tape LMM6018.LF work on stainless with a Fiber Laser?
Relate to inquiry, unfortunately the Cermark tape will NOT work in regular conditions with a fiber laser. Most fiber lasers are able to mark on stainless steel without any additives. However, the LMM-6018 Tape will work on stainless using a fiber laser if the following applies:
• The Fiber laser must be (CW) continuous wave laser.
• Or if this laser system has a Q-switch capability then select CW not pulse.
• Or if not CW the laser system and offers only pulse mode the system must have the ability to increase the frequency to more than 160,000 which should enable the laser system to mark using LMM-6018 Tape.
With Co2 the power must be 40 w or higher
Q-Why use Cermark products on laser engraving Yeti cups?
When we use a laser marking technique with a Cermark product, if it is applied in the proper manner and with the proper settings for your machine and substrate, this means that the marking material will be affixed to the substrate, so we will create a permanent finish on the outside of your cup. This means that as long as your custom YETI is in one piece, so is your personalization. This process creates the most premium and durable finish that will not crack or peel over time. It also ensures a quality personalization process
That product is no longer being manufactured by the Ferro company. There's really not a product that will work for that application well. We recommend using a Fiber laser source for plastic applications.
Q-Is the Cermark Ultra a product that can be used to mark plastics?
The New ultra no works with plastics because the functionality is to bonding to the substrate at high temperatures. “ if too much heat is applied it will melt. If the customer wants to do more testing, very low power is recommended if just want to fuse the CerMark onto the plastic. We have had some customers use the LMC-6044P Aerosol on some plastics with success. Just an idea if you want to test.”
Q. The mark is not as dark as I would like, can I get a darker mark by using a thicker application of the TherMark material?
A. Different alloys may give slightly different shades of color with the same CerMark laser marking material. Different laser types (CO2 and fiber) will also produce varying results. A thicker coating of CerMark material will result in more power being needed to create the bond with your substrate; it may not necessarily make the marks darker. In general, more is less: you will get the best marks using the smallest necessary amount of laser marking material. Make sure to consult your individual product’s product page for recommended coating thicknesses.
Q. While laser marking my substrate I notice the laser marking materials are peeling back like a sticker. What is going wrong?
A. If the materials are peeling back, one of two things is occurring:
There may be a coating of some sort preventing the CerMark laser marking materials from bonding to the substrate. We usually see this with lacquer coated metals (these coatings are common on aluminum, brass, and pewter). If you are not sure whether or not your substrate has a lacquer coating, you can test by direct laser marking (to remove the coating), applying CerMark materials, and then re-laser marking on the same spot. If the materials bond, then you know a coating was causing your problem.
If you know your piece is not lacquer coated, the problem may be stemming from residue left behind by a cleaning agent such as an over the counter glass cleaner. Simply wash the substrate with warm water to remove any cleaning agent residue. Note: When marking with the TherMark LMC products on ceramic substrates, you should never use cleaning agents to wash or clean debris and oils off the substrate. Matte finished ceramics will hold the agents in the porous surfaces and will give you great difficulty when marking.
Speed. Peeling may occur when the correct amount of laser energy has been applied to the substrate but with too high a speed setting. The materials are bonding to themselves but have not had enough time to bond to the substrate. To fix this problem, slow down the laser marking speed until you achieve the Correct Settings.
Q. I get inconsistent marks after marking. Different parts of the graphics have different contrast and quality.
A. This may happen when the coating of CerMark materials is not homogeneous along the surface being marked. This usually occurs when airbrushing or foam brushing our liquid products. Care must be taken to master a technique which works for you so you can evenly apply the ink along the whole target surface every time.
Q. The laser marking materials look great after laser marking them, but when I go to rinse them off they wipe clean. What am I doing wrong?
A. Usually this means you are not allowing the laser enough time to bond the materials to the substrate. You can adjust by lowering the marking speed (expressed in %, in/sec, or cm/sec). We recommend this be done in 5% increments. A power grid on a sample piece may help to visualize the settings better.
Q. Can you screen-print the LMM-6000 or LMM-14?
NO! This is not recommended.
Q. The marked graphic is not sharp; lines are thicker than in the picture. What could be wrong?
A. A common reason for this problem is that your laser is out of focus. When your laser is focus, the narrowest waist of the laser beam is the part of the beam which hits the substrate. When you are out of focus, a wider part of the beam is hitting the substrate. Despite being somewhat out of focus it is still possible to create a bonded mark. However, the excess beam width will reduce the resolution you can achieve. In order to fix this problem, re-focus your laser. Once you bring the laser into focus you may need to reduce your laser power setting.
Q. I use the same settings specified by TherMark and I get terrible results. What can be wrong?
A. There are a number of circumstances which can cause this:
For exactly same situation described you may get bad results due to being out of focus. See above.
The coating thickness makes a huge difference, too. Try a few different coating thicknesses to get the best results.
Check which kind of lens you are using. Different lenses with different focal lengths will have different beam waists at the focal plain, requiring different power and speed settings.
A common error is failure to perform the proper conversion of settings. Settings are often given in percentages, but 80% power on a 45W laser is not the same as 80% power on a 30W laser. Similarly, 80% speed on a laser which goes 140 in/sec at 100% speed is not the same as 80% speed on a laser which goes 60 in/sec at 100% speed. Make sure to convert percentages so they are relevant for your laser. Remember, the important thing is absolute power (Watts) and absolute speed (in/sec or cm/sec).
Mode of operation is also very important. It is important to understand the differences between rastering vs. vectoring and continuous wave vs. pulse. For more information, please visit our Laser Settings Section.
Q. How do I apply LMM-6000 & LMM-14?
These products can be applied using the following application methods: spray, brush or screen print. These products should be applied directly to the metal substrate, but care must be taken to ensure that an even coat is applied. The LMM-6000 & LMM-14 can be applied using spray and foam br
ush applications methods. Any variation in the coating such as brush marks may translate into variation in the final mark appearance. Spraying will give you the best results and the most evenly applied coating. When spraying these products we recommend the product be applied in a well ventilated area or spray booth designed to pull air away from user.
Q. How much LMM-6000, & LMM-14 do I apply?
You should apply only enough of these products to hide the metal surface. Applying more will result in having to use more laser power to create marks; it will not make the marks darker.
Q. How do I thin LMM-6000, & LMM-14?
LMM-6000 & LMM-14 can be thinned with denatured alcohol, ethanol, acetone or methyl ethyl ketone (MEK). Add the thinner to the LMM-6000 and stir or shake thoroughly. Isopropyl alcohol should be avoided.
Q. How much thinner do I need?
In a brush on application the LMM-6000 & LMM-14 should be thinned 2 parts ethanol 1 part LMM-6000 & LMM-14 more ethanol if needed. We recommend a maximum thinning ratio of 1 part LMM-6000 & LMM-14 to 1 part ethanol for spraying. Ethanol can also be added to help aid in brushing, it will help brush marks flow out. MEK and acetone are stronger solvents; therefore less thinning will be needed when using these solvents.
Q. How do I clean LMM-6000 & LMM-14 off of the metal?
LMM-6000 & LMM-14 can be cleaned using plain water.
Q. What metals does LMM-6000 & LMM-14 work on?
LMM-6000 & LMM-14 has been tested on stainless steel, aluminum, brass, copper, nickel, silver, and titanium. LMM-6000 & LMM-14 will not work on metals that have a coating or protective clear lacquer.
Q. How long will the marks last? How tough are they?
Marks made using LMM-6000 & LMM-14 are permanent. Marks made with LMM-6000 & LMM-14 are generally considered to be as tough as the metal they are applied on. Physical testing has shown them to be resistant to many common strong acids, bases, organic solvents and extreme heat or cold. LMM-6000 & LMM-14 also have good salt spray resistance, scratch resistance and QUV resistance.
Q. Can I reuse LMM-6000 & LMM-14?
LMM-6000 & LMM-14 should not be used if it has dried out. LMM-6000 & LMM-14 also should not be reused by washing it off of a part then respraying the washed off material. Reused LMM-6000 & LMM-14 will not produce a high quality mark. Performance characteristics will also be affected.
Q. What kind of laser do I need?
LMM-6000 & LMM-14 can be used with CO2, YAG, YVO4, or Fiber laser marking systems. When using YAG, YVO4 and Fiber laser systems a continuous wave system is recommended. Some pulse systems may work, this depends on the frequency rate capabilities within the system.
Q. How much power should I use?
The power settings that LMM-6000 & LMM-14 will work best at vary depending on the laser being used. For example, with a 35 watt CO2 laser, marking on stainless steel requires the use of 100% power at a write speed of 4-8 inches per second. Marking on aluminum requires 100% power at a write speed of 1-4 inches per second with the same laser. A more powerful laser will be able to make the same mark using less power or writing faster. Also, aluminum, copper, brass and other soft, heat conductive metals require higher powers and slower writing speeds. These metals will conduct heat away from the marking area faster than steel, thus requiring more heat (power) to make a mark. Your power settings will vary depending on the laser used and the substrate being marked, so some experimentation may be necessary to achieve the best mark.
Q. Does LMM-6000 & LMM-14 work on glass?
No. The LMM-6000 & LMM-14 are not formulated to be used on glass surfaces. It is designed to work only on metal surfaces. CerMark also offers the LMC series products for laser marking on glass and ceramic substrates.
Q. Will LMM-6000 & LMM-14 work on coated metals?
No. If the metal has a protective coating on it, the coating must be removed before it can be marked. The protective coating will interfere with LMM-6000 & LMM-14 ability to bond to the surface of the metal.
Q. Will LMM-6000 & LMM-14 work on anodized metals?
LMM-6000& LMM-14 has generally been found to not work on anodized metals, but in some cases satisfactory results have been reported. We recommend experimentation if possible to determine if LMM-6000 & LMM-14 will work in your particular application. The CerMark LMM-6904 is formulated for use on anodized surfaces.
Q. How many marks can I get from 500 grams of LMM-6000 & LMM-14?
When thinned and used as recommended, 500 grams LMM-6000 & LMM-14 should provide approximately 6000 square inches of coverage. The number of marks you can make will depend on the size of the mark and how much material you apply to the substrate.
Q. Can I get blacker marks with a thicker coat of LMM-6000 & LMM-14?
No. Additional LMM-6000 & LMM-14 film thickness will only result in more power being needed to make a mark; it will not make the marks any darker.
Q. What other colors for metal are currently available?
Currently we offer a black LMM-6000 & LMM-14 on metal substrates. CerMark also offers LMM-6150 Pearl (off white) and LMM-6151 Copper which will mark on stainless steel, Black Oxide and Black Parkerized metals widely used for firearms and knives and a variety of tools. Contact us for more information.
Q-I’m looking for technical assistance marking with a fiber Trumpf Trumark 5000 series laser using the ultra black spray compound
You have to fill the form ( https://jorlink.com/Contact-Us/Contact-Us-Sales-Inquiry/Sales-Force-Lead-Form ) at jorlink.com explaining the problem , or you can visit the support at (https://go.oncehub.com/jorlinktech) and choice your service assistance.
Q-I'm needing to engrave on some award medals for a school. I've got some of your Cermark 6000 and Cermark Black Laser Marking spray - I'm trying to figure out if I can use it to laser engrave on an award medallion that is made of zinc alloy?
About your question: Fiber lasers are the most efficient at generating permanent & high-contrast identifiers on these materials. You can etch barcodes, data matrix codes, QR codes, serial numbers, logos and even more on all types of zinc parts. Cermark is not the answer to engrave zinc alloys with CO2 Laser. Even if you get it to work the next item from the same product line may well have a totally different composition and not work. Cermark is to engrave all kind of metals but not zinc alloy.
Q-Is there any specification that covers/relates to the laser marking with the "paint" products. I am needing this for a Aerospace customer?
Q-What is the main difference between LMC 6000 and LCM 6044P ?
LMC6044P product can mark a range of glass and ceramic substrates. It has previously been used to mark many different types of glass in industrial applications such as vehicle windshields, laboratory instruments, plate glass, and glass ampules. It can also be used for decorative work on bottles, wine glasses, and awards. Additionally, it has found uses on ceramic products such as porcelain sanitary ware, electronic substrates, and for decorating walls and floor tiles. In another way, the Lmm6000 is designed for metals is recommended for creating black marks on a variety of metals such as Stainless Steel, Bright Annealed Chrome, Plating Titanium Galvanized, Steel Nickel Plating, Brass Aluminum Gold, Plating, Copper, Pewter, and Silver Plating.
Q- When using the ULTRA spray on stainless steel tags we are getting spotty results. Not solid black. I have a 25 watt universal M300 laser. Experiencing faintness in some areas of the tag. Our settings are power 100 and speed of 20. PPI of 600.
These are suggested starting settings. All of the laser spray products will require some experimenting to perfect. Even two lasers that are the same brand, model and power will be different. Over time the laser tube will change in power and that will effect the results. More power does NOT mean better results. There is a sweet spot you'll want to find.
Q. I am getting a discoloration on my substrate after I apply and laser mark the TherMark laser marking materials. What could be wrong?
A. This type of discoloration can appear on silver-plated, gold-plated and chrome substrates and mostly occurs when using liquid CerMark materials straight out of the container. The liquid marking materials contain a strong concentrate of chemicals and may cause discoloration when left to sit on some surfaces (especially more inexpensive items). You can fix this problem by adding a small amount of thinning agent (denatured alcohol or demineralized water) to your CerMark marking materials, quick drying the piece with a heat gun, hair dryer or fan after application, and then laser marking and removing the excess marking material quickly. By not letting the marking material sit on the plated/chrome substrate you will greatly decrease the chance of discoloration.
Q-Do you ship Cermark products to worldwide?
Q. After I laser mark my substrate there is no CerMark material left.
A. This happens when you have your laser speed set too low. You are actually blowing the TherMark materials off the substrate surface. At too slow a marking speed, the amount of thermal energy is enough to disperse the materials around on the surface but not let them create a bond. In this instance you will need to increase the marking speed in increments of 5% until you find the exact setting needed.
Q-I Had An Issue With The Spray Marking Where After Only One Or 2 Uses It Clogged Up On Me And I Wasted Nearly A Full Can Which Was Very Frustrating As To The Cost Of The Material. I Was Told You Came Out With A Different Product That Prevented That From Happening, Is This True?
Hi , thank's for reaching out! Ferro has released a new product called Cermark Ultra. This compound is a multi-use marking spray and is highly recommended for just about all marking applications. However, I haven't personally heard of anything regarding a storage difference. The can has instructions on it for safe storage and cleaning of the nozzle. These need to be followed with every use to prevent clogging of the nozzle. This includes spraying a few times with the can flipped upside down. I would also recommend not letting the can sit for over a few weeks without a quick spray to keep the nozzle clean.
Q. I am marking glass with LMC products and get micro-fracturing. How can I prevent this from happening?
A. Micro-fracturing occurs when the glass substrate is heated beyond its melting temperature and then rapidly cooled to room temperatures. These strong variations in temperature lead to local expansion and contraction and subsequently to micro-fracturing. There are two mechanisms of heating glass substrates: through conduction (ink heating the glass through thermal conduction), and through direct absorption. The latter is present mostly in CO2 lasers due to the absorption at CO2 lasers’ wavelength of operation. Consequently, solid-state lasers generate smoother marks. In both cases the micro-fracturing can often be minimized by lowering the power and the speed, thus creating gentle conditions for bonding – heating the ink just enough to bond to the surface and scanning slowly enough to deposit enough heat to bond.
Q. I am getting a brown rust color instead of a black mark. Are the CerMark laser marking materials bad?
A. No, the marking materials are fine. The browning or rusting occurs when you have applied too much thermal energy either due to slow speed or excess power. In this case, you have actually burnt the CerMark material. To fix this you should increase the marking speed or lower the laser power.
Q. My ink/paste has solidified. Can I re-liquify it?
A. Yes. You can re-liquify the ink by using small amounts of denatured alcohol or demineralized water. This process may take several hours or even days depending on how much material was in the container. Please remember that the more thinning agent you use, the lighter the pigment may become.
Q- Where you can find a distributor in Mexico or you can make the purchase directly with you ?.
We Have A Distributor In Mexico For Some Of Our Products And Some Can Be Purchased Directly, We Also Have A Representative In Costa Rica
Q-I have some aluminum 7075 T6 parts that were made for me a few years ago and were marked using Cermark. I have questions about the cleaning agent and possible corrosion if not washed off?
"I need to clarify if they are looking for a cleaner to remove corrosion. Or how not to create corrosion from occurring in the first place. When laser marking the aluminum with LMM-14 or LMM-6000 staining can occur if water with residue from the LMM-14 or 6000 remains on the metal parts. This residue and water left on metals can tarnish them"
Q-Is the Cermark Ultra a product that can be used to mark plastics?
The New ultra no works with plastics because the functionality is to bonding to the substrate at high temperatures and... “ if too much heat is applied it will melt. If the customer wants to do more testing, very low power is recommended if just want to fuse the CerMark onto the plastic. We have had some customers use the LMC-6044P Aerosol on some plastics with success. ”
Q-Can a light plastic bristle brushing with IPA be done to check adherence?
One Rule Of Thumb When It Comes To Using The CerMark. The Laser Mark Can Only Be As Durable As The Substrate It Is Applied To. I Can Suggest Testing To Determine The Best Setting .
Q-I see that the LMM6000 is more expensive, what is the difference between the LMM6000 and the New Ultra? I know that the LMM6000 is like the more usual
CerMark ULTRA is a new formula that is produced by Ferro who has acquired the TherMark brand some time ago. TherMark had previously created different formulas for their products. For example we had a formula for stainless steel, another for aluminum, another for copper, another for ceramics, another for glass, etc. Now, Ultra comes to do the things more simple. The quality of the mark is better and you can do your project faster than LMM 6000. The result of the new investigation produces a lower price too! You can continue using the LMM6000 to work with stainless steel and other metals, however, you already have another product that may be more functional, the Ultra can be used on different substrates at the same time.
Q:Looking for cermark for chrome I think it is lmm6038 ?
-LMM-6038, Black Laser Marking Paste. Marks On High-Polish Metals, Such As Chrome Or Nickel Plating And Stainless Steel
Q: What is the difference between TherMark and CerMark?
A: Ferro Corporation Acquired TherMark in February 2015
TherMark Holdings’ laser marking technology has been integrated into Ferro’s Laser Marking Materials portfolio. TherMark’s patented laser marking technology expands Ferro’s position in the high-value glass and color markets, with its unique ability to quickly, precisely and permanently fuse marking materials to ceramics, plastics, metals, glass, and other hard surfaces. LEARN MORE.
Q: I would like to try LMM14 and/or LMM6000. Should I use aerosol or liquid ink?
A: For new users, we recommend starting with aerosol for testing purposes. Aerosol cans take the variable of dilution out of the equation and are easier to use – you only need to focus on getting the correct coating thickness and laser settings.
We recommend switching to air brush application of liquid laser marking ink once you have some experience with our products and begin doing a larger volume of marking. This will add the additional variable of dilution to the equation, but since you are already familiar with the proper coating thickness it should be an easy switch. The economies of scale involved in switching to liquid ink are substantial: a square inch of LMM14 aerosol costs roughly $.06, while a square inch of LMM14 liquid purchased in a 1,000 gram container costs below $.02.
Q: Can I mark color on metal? Plastic?
A: Not at this time, but we are working on it.
Q: Is TherMark / CerMark laser marking material dangerous or toxic?
A: We recommend that workers wear safety glasses or goggles and protective gloves when applying our products and do so in a well-ventilated area as is customary whenever handling chemicals. click here to read our statement on worker safety.
Q: How should I dispose of excess TherMark / CerMark laser marking material?
A: Please call your local government for more information. Each State has its own laws regarding waste regulation.
Q: Is TherMark / CerMark laser marking material FDA approved?
A: TherMark materials are not approved in themselves by the FDA as the FDA’s role is to approve final products rather than component materials. The FDA has, however, approved many of our customer’s finished products such as surgical tools and implants which have been marked using TherMark materials. For more information, please click here to read our Application Note on Marking for Medical Devices.
Q: I have seen laser marked ceramic tiles with four color pictures. Can I use TherMark / CerMark products to do four color marking?
A: There are processes for four color marking on ceramic tiles based on the TherMark laser bonding technology, however we do not sell and support this process.
Q: Why can’t some TherMark / CerMark products be shipped via air freight without additional charges?
A: Aerosol cans (LMM14 , LMM6000 and New Ultra ) and alcohol-based chemicals (LMM6000, LMM6038, LMM6046 ) are considered a safety risk on airplanes due to being pressurized and flammable. CerMark employees are trained and certified to ship dangerous goods via air both domestically (under DOT 49 CFR) and internationally (under IATA). While CerMark does not charge extra for this service, freight companies impose additional charges due to the added regulatory complications of these products, and we are forced to pass these along to the customer.
Q: I have never purchased from your web store before, but it says I already have an account. What is going on?
A: If we have previously met you or someone from your company (at a trade show, for example) we have you in our database. Since our database is connected to our web store, our web store may recognize your company name or email address even though you have not previously set up a web store account. Please give us a quick call on the customer service line (336)-288-1613 and we will set you up with a password and web store access.
Q: Your web store does not take international orders. I am not in the United States but would like to purchase TherMark / CerMark products. What should I do?
A: The reason is aerosol cans and alcohol based chemicals are products require special packaging, labeling, and paperwork in order to go on airplanes, and those people doing the packing and paperwork must be properly trained on the shipping of dangerous goods.
Contact us directly by phone (336) 288-16-13 or email: firstname.lastname@example.org / email@example.com . (Spanish spoken) You can also communicate through our chat and we will be happy to assist you!
Q: I am interested in distributing TherMark / CerMark products. Are you taking on new distributors?
A: Please contact us ( firstname.lastname@example.org ) to discuss becoming a CerMark Authorized Distributor.